Kane Raisey – Raiseys Original Sports Nutrition – CEO Business Marketing Interview 16

Kane Raisey shares the business story of sports nutrition brand Raisey’s Original including the advantages of building a family run business, the importance of branding, the power of asking your customers the right questions and his thoughts on giving away free samples.

BONUS: Kane spills the beans on how to cure a hangover (tip: it may involve a Raiseys product!)

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The Ryan Marketing Show

Kane Raisey – Raiseys Original – EPISODE 16

Voice over: Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one, fire.

Ryan Jennings: This is The Ryan Marketing Show and you’re listening to episode sixteen of one hundred. Today I’m joined by Kane Raisey from Raisey’s Original. How are you doing, Kane?

Kane Raisey: Good, thanks Ryan.

RJ: Good, good. Now, it’s a super sunny day here, and for those that don’t know, Raisey’s is– you’re kind of around health supplements. How would you describe Raisey’s as a business?

KR: I think best way to describe us is that we are a family business in the specialist field of sports supplements. We see ourselves as a boutique kind of brand, and we like to do things our own way.

RJ: And what way is that? What differentiates you from what people would consider as the general market for health or supplements? What’s different about Raisey’s?

KR: Well, we are a family business, and when I say family business, it’s exactly what I mean. We’ve got– I guess I’ll start at the top, and that is my dad, Darryl. He’s our– I guess he’s like the flag pole that holds everything up, or the meeting house pole that’s in the center, and he has a wide range of skills from– well, he’s old-school, so he’s an expert at a lot of things, which are kind of overlooked – the small things as well as being our food chemist. So really, he’s the whole backbone of the place. And there’s myself and my wife, Emma, and we sort of run around putting out fires and dealing with the day-to-day things, looking at the vision and the horizons for our brand. There’s my brother Aaron, he’s recently joined us from eleven years in Korea, and he’s bringing his– I guess focus on details to our business and he’s looking after the production, the potential exporting, all of the details that is needed for running a business like this. And we’ve got Sandra who you just met upstairs; she does an expert job of keeping everything balancing and on track. And we’ve got my mum, Suzanne, and she just brings a bit of good spirits to the place and answers the phones and– yeah, so we are a family business, and that’s a good thing.

RJ: And for customers of your products, how would they see the benefit of a family-run business? Is that something that they experience thought the product? Is there certain things that you can do because you’re a family business that potentially a large multinational couldn’t?

KR: Absolutely. We’ve put our name on the label, and as you’ve probably guessed, Raisey isn’t a common name, and we are, as far as I’m aware, the only Raiseys in New Zealand.

RJ: Wow.

KR: So, to put our name on the label is– I mean, it’s our name, but it’s our customers’ guarantee that we’re going to be doing our best, because there’s no one else with that name, especially not doing sports nutrition products.

RJ: So, that’s quite a traditional way of marketing. That’s almost like twentieth, even nineteenth century: it’s like you can trust me as a blacksmith, because my name is on the company. Do you think that in a world of where people or companies make up these brands, that actually stands you apart because it is your last name?

KR: Well, it goes further than that. On our website, we have a history of our family’s involvement in the food industry, we have our photos, we even have our cell phone numbers on our website, so representing our family name, you’re dead right, it is old-school, and we kind of like to think of ourselves as old-school, because those are the principles on which Darryl has always done business, is quality, value, and, it kind of seems like a hard thing to bring into an ecommerce world, but service and personal service is very important too, and that’s where the whole name comes into it is you’re actually dealing with a family, you’re dealing with people, you’re not dealing with a faceless corporation. It makes us accountable to our customers, and I’d like to say it’s always a good thing. Sometimes– but at the end of the day, it is a good thing, because you really have to make sure you deliver on products and service and the rest of it as well.

RJ: Now, Darryl’s background was more with the protein and bacon side of things, like a very natural product. How did you get from, or how did Darryl get from there to what you’re producing now, which is also very natural, from my understanding, but is a powder base for most of the products?

KR: Let’s start probably twenty-five years ago. When I was younger, I used to spend a lot of time at the gym pushing weights, and that was what I was into back then, and I remember one day Darryl said to me, he goes, “Go down to the guy at the gym and tell him that we can make protein powders for him.” That just came out like a bolt right out of the blue and I was like, “Wow, okay.” So, I went down to the guy who owned the local gym and I said to him– I was about nineteen or something like that, and I said to him, “Oh, are you interested in selling protein powders here?” And he said, “Well, we’ve got an existing range.” And I said, “Well, me and my dad can make protein powders for you,” and he went, “Nah, I’m not interested.”

RJ: But that obviously didn’t stop you.

KR: Well, it did for a little while. I actually started looking at the brandings and things of– and I realized, wow, there’s actually a lot of marketing that goes behind all this sort of thing. And so, we sort of put it on hold for a little while and we did talk about it from time to time, but one thing led to another and it just didn’t work out, but it was always there, that idea. And I guess careers change and things happen and we got to talking about it about twenty years later and this time it worked out. We sort of met the right people and just really probably were both at a stage of life where we could actually put some time towards it, having this project that kind of took our collective skills and interests and put them together, and I think it’s one of the things I love about being in this family business is that it is– when you look across our family and our skillset as a family, which I don’t know if many people do that, but I do, and I look and it makes me appreciate all the different skills and different things that people in our family are good at. And in this business, we’ve been able to bring all of those together like a team. Everyone has a strength and a weakness and you kind of arrange things so that people are playing to their strengths and their weaknesses are not exposed too much. That’s a little bit of a background of how we started. It was a conversation and an idea.

RJ: And was it just you and your father Darryl at the time or did the whole Raiseys family say, “Hey, let’s stop what we’re doing. This is now our focus”?

KR: No, it was Darryl and I and then I guess the next person to get on board would’ve been my mum Suzanne and my wife Emma. We sort of started something off and we realized we’re actually going to need some more skills and some more manpower, I guess, so that evolved along and over what, about eight years now since we first got the concept more than just a discussion? As I said, people’s careers, and I guess the planets just aligned, that staggered along the way, people were able to slot in kind of as we needed it. But that once again comes back to the flexibility of having a family business is you don’t have to kind of convince an employer or someone– I guess we’re all working towards a common goal, I guess is probably the best way to put it: to work in a fun environment and an exciting industry with people that you trust and you can have a good time instead of, I guess– my previous career. I was on call 24/7 for twelve, thirteen years in a quarry, mining, conveyer belt industry. So, on a sunny day it was a great job – the outside working in a quarry somewhere. In the middle of the night when it was pouring rain, it was the worst possible job. It was dangerous, it was inconvenient, and it wasn’t very family friendly, so it’s a blessing to be in this situation.

RJ: Going back eight years, how did you know that you had the product right?

KR: Well, getting the product right, I guess that’s an ongoing thing. You just have to start somewhere, I think. And what we were able to do is utilize Darryl’s, I’ll say, extreme innovative spirit. He’s always been an innovator, he’s always been a bit of a mad scientist, and I mean that in a good way. I don’t think anyone’s perished along the way. But he’s always had fantastic ideas, and he looks outside the box every single day. Comes up with different ways to solve for problems that might be stumbling blocks for a lot of other people. So, we started off with three or four really good products. The first one was our Hydrate, which is still to this day, year in and year out, our bestselling product, and people just love it. We’ve got one flavor, we’ve got two sizes – oh sorry, three sizes now, but one flavor, and people just love it. It’s like our flagship product. Then we also started off with– so, that was like our cycle endurance-related product. We wanted to have a range of products to suit all active people – not just bodybuilding, not just cycling, not just a small corner of activity. We wanted to have something for everyone.

RJ: Across just the top athletes across all sports? Or across any level of athlete?

KR: Well, I think when we first started, we were looking at aiming it at serious athletes, but it soon became really apparent that that’s not where the market is. The market is your weekend warrior, your everyday athlete who just–

RJ: Is that Space Invaders? People love the Space Invaders you got earlier.

KR: — who battle away and do this for fun, for health, and also to exercise their competitive spirit, and we found that Kiwis have that in spades. It’s a good balance. So, we soon found out that it was really the best thing to do to target that end of the market. So, if you ever look at our branding, it’s not heavy on aggressive images and that sort of extreme sort of side, which a lot of products are. We’ve kind of gone for more the visually appealing, like our products, [oodle? 0:17:09.7] the style, bit of color, something for everyone.

RJ: Yeah, that’s the message I get when we see the images. It looks very accessible. It looks like no matter what your sport, this is an aspirational brand and an image, whereas some of the other supplements look very much like the extreme weightlifter, that vertical– you’re going to be Arnold Schwarzenegger, that’s your only kind of path. That’s interesting what you say around that next tier down, the weekend warriors, that’s where the– is that where the growth is or has that now made up quite a substantial part of the business?

KR: Well, I think it’s a combination, really, is– sometimes these things, they just kind of make themselves apparent. All I have to do is I just have to look through the information that my customers give me. When we first got this going, we asked for a lot of information of all of our customers, and what we found was a typical Raisey’s Original customer was someone who was maybe in their thirties, maybe forties, or even fifties, but not the young, [keen as? 0:18:36.4] sort of guy. Then we looked at what sports they would play, because once again, we’d ask a lot of questions, and we found that cycling was very popular. And in saying that though, obviously when you think of sports nutrition, you think of weightlifting and gym, so there’s always adding to the market is there, but we found that it was a little bit more competitive. And we also found that at that end of the market, people were a little more price conscious.

RJ: Price per gram of protein versus the flavor or versus–

KR: Or versus being New Zealand-made by a family business. I mean, these things, they don’t– it’s not like you can totally draw down and ask someone that, you have to sort of look at a wide range of information and then you can sort of see that, okay, maybe cyclists or people in their thirties and forties and fifties who are refined– they might’ve been ex-rugby players, now their knees are a bit dickey – I mean, this is a generalization – but they’re still competitive; they still like to win, they still like to compete. And we found those are the sort of people that would quite happily support New Zealand brands. Whereas gym guys or people who get it from the supermarket, they’re sort of battling away and they probably don’t have the same, I guess, disposable income, and so they have to choose the products a little bit more price consciously. So, that was something that we thought about was, okay, based on this information that we’re getting, we just found that those kind of people just gravitated toward our brand.

RJ: Interesting. So, that’s actually worth drilling in a little bit more on is that it’s quite refreshing to hear that you’re collecting that information and then using that to inform what you know about how your product’s being used in the market. Is that purely through your ecommerce channel? Is that through your retail partners as well? How do you get that information?

KR: Initially it was through the ecommerce channel. As I said, before anyone would buy anything off us we had to– they had to answer some questions. Well, it was optional, but we found that people were quite happy to fill out a questionnaire. Also, right from day one, one of our policies is we always have given away free samples.

RJ: I noticed that on your sites.

KR: It’s just the way we’ve done it. It didn’t take me long to work out that someone tasting one of our products, for example, the Hydrate, everyone loves it, as I said before, so we found that as soon as someone tried, it, they would go, “Man, this is great,” so they’ll come use it. Whereas you can have an advertising campaign, you can have a sponsorship agreement, and what you’re trying to do out of all of those things is you’re trying to get someone to think of your brand then either go straight to their computer, or next time they’re on their computer, or whatever, to look up your brand, then hopefully you snare them in with your branding and your navigation around your site. And then if they don’t buy, you want them to request a sample so that they can at least try it. So, we kind of worked out that by just offering people samples and being upfront about it, just, “Here, want a sample?” We cut out those three or four steps that we may lose someone along the way. They might forget about it next time. They go, “Oh yeah, that looks great,” and then just forget about it. But when they get samples, an idea is for them to taste it and so we just cut out a few steps, just give it to them, and that’s just the way we’ve always done it is, “You want to try a sample?” Just ask. We would then use that offer to get information. When I say we give them away, there was a price, and that price was five minutes of your time to let us know what you do, how you might use the sample, and then I use that. Over time I change the questions often as we might be looking at a new product or something. Just as one side of getting some information, I’ll tailor those questions for people requesting samples. So, getting back to what you’re saying is getting information is very important. It’s probably one of the most important things for an online business is getting that information and getting people to willingly offer it as well, because everyone’s time sensitive or time poor, so stopping and filling out a form is the last thing anyone wants to be doing. So yeah, you have to make them want to give you that information and be honest about it.

RJ: That’s good to see. Data drives decision, so the more data you can have, the better the decision-making can be. I also noticed that you’ve got some very high level endorsements from sports people. How important has that been to the overall journey of Raisey’s?

KR: You need credibility in a market like sports nutrition and supplements. You need someone as a reference point. That’s just the way people are. If they’re using a product, they need a reason to want to change or they need a reason to want to try your product out. So, it’s like a multi-prong attack: maybe ordering off a family business isn’t important to them. Maybe a style-y-looking label isn’t important to them. Maybe a reasonable priced product, that’s not enough. They might want to see that there’s a champion athlete or series of champion athletes using this product. So, I think credibility is important. Sometimes you can go overboard with it. What we’ve found is you have to balance that endorsement with some sort of realism because a lot of things you would– like for example, if you saw Usain Bolt advertising a particular shoe, you can guarantee he probably doesn’t run around in that shoe.

RJ: Well, that’s what I’d want to know with Raisey’s: are they using your products to achieve their goals?

KR: Well, it states that on our website that the products that you’re buying off the website are exactly the same products as what these champion athletes and sports people are using; they’re not using anything different. So, that comes back to, once again, credibility: it is the same product. It’s good enough for them, then it might be worth giving it a try.

RJ: So, then putting all of those sports nutrition products to one side, because you have obviously done very well at growing that side of the business. What struck me about a year or so ago, this new product – seemingly new product – came out, which wasn’t around sports nutrition per se, but was a product, I think it was called Bounce and it was the miracle hangover cure.

KR: We don’t use the C word around here.

RJ: How does a business that’s known for sports nutrition launch something which, assuming it works 100% as your sports nutrition would, how do you go about finding that market and getting them to discover…?

KR: That’s a really good question, because it is one of the very first things that we discussed. The Bounce product, like a lot of good product, it just kind of happened.

RJ: It’s just a Darryl thing–

KR: No, no, actually this was my wife Emma and myself. We had some friends staying with us and one particular morning we were just sitting around having a coffee and we were having a discussion, and we were recounting to them that some of our products, we’d had people tell us that the Hydrate, I think it was, and the Hydrate X product, people would say, “Oh, they’re really good for hangovers.” And we’d never really sort of taken much use of that. We said, “Oh, that’s probably all in your mind,” sort of thing. And then we had these people staying, and it wasn’t me of course, but one of our friends staying need a little bit of help the next morning, and they backed that up. They said, “Well, this was amazing. It really worked.” And we sort of laughed it off and then we just got talking about it and I decided to put a little bit of homework into that one and I researched exactly what a hangover was, and it was very interesting.

RJ: What is a hangover? I know how it feels, but what happens that you need to solve?

KR: Well, a whole bunch of things. It’s actually a chain reaction. Let’s just say that it’s not one particular thing, and also the more I looked into it I realized that it’s quite a serious thing. Your body is– it’s not a trauma, but it’s not something that is just an inconvenience for your body; your body really has to work to deal with it. But I guess just getting back to the philosophy of it was that we came up with the product and then we wrestled with how does this fit into Raisey’s Original? And we had a discussion on what we are as a brand, and one word that kept coming up was lifestyle. We’re a lifestyle related brand: our products are lifestyle related, they’re not extreme, they’re for people who make active, healthy living part of a lifestyle. And then we thought, we’ll hold onto that word, lifestyle, and then we used that to kind of expand on where Bounce might fit in. And then when we looked at it from that angle, we realized that just as an active lifestyle and exercise is healthy, then so is relaxing and enjoying time with family and friends, and one of the ways that that obviously comes about is by having a wine or beer. So, we took a more kind of holistic approach to the lifestyle nutrition. We realized that a lot of the athletes that we supply sports nutrition products to also enjoy having a beer and a wine. So, pretty soon, we worked out that this actually is a really good fit. We also then looked at it a bit further and we realized that it’s not just when we had a look at the way that a hangover can affect your lifestyle, we didn’t realize that there would be a lot of instances where, for example, children might miss out getting to sports or might miss out on things, or family might [kind of? 0:32:42.2] unnecessary stress due to hangovers. So, we thought, look, if we can get this thing right, then there’s a much less chance, if someone is smart enough to use sports nutrition and knows that they can have a positive effect when they’re exercising or repairing muscles or rehydrating, then they’re probably smart enough to know that you can take that, I guess, knowledge that nutrition does affect your body and have a product that might help, or I guess lessen the chance of stress of a son or daughter missing out on arguments, fighting, whatever. I mean, let’s face it: our world’s not something that has a history of 100% positive effects. That’s a diplomatic way of saying it. So, we just looked at it and we thought it’s actually a really good fit for our brand. We’re a health related brand and health and healthy lifestyles are not just confined to the sports field.

RJ: Did you find that the product was more cross sale or up sale with existing Raisey’s customers or has it helped you access or introduce Raisey’s to entirely new consumers that maybe you wouldn’t have got to if you just had sports nutrition?

KR: No, I think so. I think it was the latter. And I’m still not 100% sure that we made the right decision by putting the Raisey’s name on it. It was one of those things that could’ve gone either way, but we decided to do it because we had established some credibility. So, it was a little bit of a risk, but this is the way it’s worked out is I would say that your average Bounce user may not even know that we have sports nutrition products.

RJ: Wow.

KR: So, yeah. It was kind of one of those things where it was a little bit of fun and games and then we developed it and then we decided, let’s whack a label on this thing, because the feedback we were getting, we were making it here and firing it out to friends and family and even some of our existing customers saying, “Well, what do you think of this?” And the feedback was that good that we just couldn’t not put a label on it. And that’s true.

RJ: Where is it purchased from? Is it from actually the bars and restaurants that sell the alcohol, or is it more supermarkets and retail?

KR: Yeah, it’s in at bottle stores, we’ve still got our website. To be fair, it’s not something we’ve really pushed. It’s kind of one of those products we were just sort of testing the market and let’s sort of just see what happens with it. We’re not going to build a business model around that product being mainstay of the Raisey’s range, but yeah, as I said, it was something, a little bit of fun, and the feedback we get is– people stop me in the street who know who I am. “Mate, I had some of your Bounce and it’s great. I was a bit skeptical, but oh my god it works.” And I said, “Mate,” and this is what I say: “Well mate, I wouldn’t put my name on it if it didn’t work.”

RJ: That’s great.

KR: So that’s just getting back to what we said right at the beginning, is having your name on something that gives you the confidence, you can tell someone that. I put my name on it, of course it works.

RJ: How does that then play into the international market side of things? I noticed you’re in one export market already and the global market’s crying out for natural products and certainly New Zealand sourced ingredients. Where does Raisey’s sit in that exporting New Zealand to the world?

KR: I think New Zealand made is definitely an advantage and an asset to any business. Funny thing is I don’t know if people in New Zealand realize that as much.

RJ: I think we take it for granted.

KR: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. So, it’s, like having your name on your product, taking New Zealand made products to the world, it is also something that keeps you– you feel responsible. New Zealand made, it means something, so all these things that make you want to have as best products as you can, I mean, if I can’t represent New Zealand on the sports field as I would’ve liked, we can represent New Zealand through having a really good brand. I’m proud to put New Zealand made products out there to the world. It’s not easy, though, and you’ll find talking to a lot of people who are dipping their toes into the export thing, saying “New Zealand made” on it is great, but there’s a lot else that has to go on.

RJ: Is that on the operational side or on the getting market traction, the sales and marketing side, or across the whole piece? Is it like starting again?

KR: Well, it kind of is, and I think the best thing that you can take forward into that is the knowledge of what you’ve learned so far, because people– for example, we’ve been trying to get our products into the Korean market, people out there don’t know who we are. So, the Raisey’s brand is– it’s important for people, potential customers, to be able to go to a website, because they will do that. They will go to a website and they will check up, who are these people, because they’ll want to verify that this isn’t some setup.

RJ: Right. And will you then localize that in local language for Korea, or will you keep it as a New Zealand–?

KR: No, I think with those things we’ve found out that the most important thing by far is having someone who you trust who is either based in–

RJ: In market.

KR: Yeah, in the country that you’re aiming at or the region. But trust is the biggest thing. You have to trust them. And we’ve been very lucky that the people who we’ve been dealing with have bought into the family business – I don’t mean that financially, I mean conceptually – and they really– and you have to get that all sorted out at the start. You have to be upfront. You have to sit down and basically really just establish the trust, because when you’re dealing with overseas markets and things, that person is your– that’s your whole point of contact.

RJ: Yeah.

KR: So, if they’re not telling you the truth or if you don’t have confidence, then it’s probably just not going to work, because there are so many things that can go wrong. Then the whole thing would fall down. I think that’s the most important thing, I think, for overseas is having someone to deal with it you can trust. And vice-versa. And that was another thing why having Raisey’s Original, having your family name on the brand, those people who get involved in these things in these countries, they’re sharp operators; they know what they’re looking for, and a family business really helps take up that–

RJ: Right. So, do they actually do the researching and do you get knocks on the door rather than you going out there?

KR: Well, I don’t know how other people do it; we just developed a good relationship with a distributer and we’ve got a few other ones that we’re working with, but our first guy into Korea, we just decided we were going to trust him. We just decided that we– we met him and we had a lot of dealings with him. I asked him some pretty straight up questions and gave him some assurances from the heart, and he just answered back the same way and came out to see us here in New Zealand, and it was– we decided to go with it and trust him and the decisions that he makes, because he’s there. He knows the market.

RJ: He’s representing your name, your family name.

KR: Yep. And so no, that was– as far as that side of things went, we had conference.

RJ: And where to next? New products? New markets? Or consolidation on what you’ve already built?

KR: Well, I think that’s something that– now is definitely the right time for us to start looking at new opportunities and new concepts within Raisey’s Original. It’ll be seven or eight years now we’ve been building this brand and it’s at a point now where we’re actually kind of just taking a bit of a step to the side and we’re looking at what we’ve learned.

RJ: That’s a smart thing to do. There’s a lot of knowledge that you can reflect on and actually take for granted sometimes. You don’t want to lose that when you’re trying to then take that next step.

KR: Well, you can react to things and sometimes it seems like the right thing at the time, but we’ve done a little bit of that, but I think now we’re just, as I said, we’re taking a step just to the side and we’re going to really look at what’s worked and what hasn’t. And we’ve got new products coming out. Some of our products we’re going to be retiring and in their place will be better products. We’re also looking at a whole new concept in ecommerce sports supplements, so once again, this is– being a small business, we can– there’s not a lot of red tape that we have to go through to get maybe some quite out there ideas actualized. It’s just a matter of sitting around the table with coffee and saying, “Yeah, let’s do this. Let’s give it a go,” just like we did with the Bounce. So, that’ll be– those two things– I guess one of them is like a rebranding, you could say, of the Raisey’s Original brand. You can’t stay the same. We’ve got great branding, we love our branding, and people love our branding, our customers love our branding, and I’ve asked plenty of questions about the branding and people love it, but it still needs to be updated. Not just our branding, but it’s something I think every business should look at doing every so often is just tweaking what needs to be tweaked. So, that’s what we’ll be doing with the Raisey’s Original brand and then a new concept that we’re going to kind of introduce based almost solely on asking questions of our customers.

RJ: Wow. That’s going to be strong.

KR: Yeah. Yep. No, it’s a concept that kind of, once again, as I said at the beginning, these things just emerge from a pile of data that you get and then you’re scratching through it all and then you just find something in there that you think, wow, this is– I wouldn’t have thought this. But then when you stop and think about it, you think, oh my god, it’s obvious. It’s obvious. You can see patterns emerging, and a lot of times in the shop here, people come in and I always ask them questions and people, they like to talk. They like to tell you about what their goals are – how will they use our product. I always love hearing, how do you use our product? What do you use it for? Do you use water? Do you use milk? Do you put it in pancakes? Do you put it on your– and people are like, “Yeah, this is what I do,” and they’re happy to talk. And just by getting that information, I’ve found that we’re really– we’ve made a couple of very small decisions and very easy decisions that are just really paying off, so we take those and expand on them and it’s going to come back to making things simpler right across the business. Raisey’s Original as a brand has grown quite well as a brand, but with that, being a small business with only– sometimes there’s only two or three people in here servicing a brand which people actually assume is a huge brand. People think we’re a lot bigger than we actually are. People think we’re this brand that we’ve got all this time to run around doing this and that, but we don’t. So, it’s kind of a double-edged sword: when you’re really focused on getting the brand going, it can sometimes be actually at the expense of your business. You’re running your brand, but you’re not looking after the business side of things. So, in this new concept, we’re going to make things nice and simple and it’s going to be more business oriented than brand.

RJ: Well, I look forward to seeing more of what you’re going to produce around that. Kane, I think what I’ve learned from today is really there’s three major pillars to your business that are responsible for the success, and the first sets with Darryl and his ability to create products backed by science and use that to create new, but natural products in a market that may not all be natural, and then secondly to hat, being a family organization, you’ve got the ability to make very quick decisions and make decisions based on what you want to do as a family, not necessarily for shareholders or suppliers or even customers; you can decide that yourself. And then the third part, which is really refreshing to hear, is that passion for understanding what your customers are doing and asking the questions of your customers. Too often I hear about two out of those three, but not the consumer one, so it looks like you’re doing a really good job in those three areas. And I think anyone listening to this interview would’ve got a lot out of it, particularly for suppliers trying to build not just a brand, but build it around a family business. So, thanks very much for your time today.

KR: Oh, no worries, Ryan. Thanks for the opportunity. I’ve appreciated it.

RJ: You’re welcome.

KR: Thank you, mate.

RJ: Cheers.

KR: Cheers.